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Great interview!

Rugby needs investment. Very few profitable clubs and even those in the green are not generating much. I think it’s a good idea. You would have 8 teams with the best players. The other leagues would remain the same with development players who can be drafted in. No relegation and this leagues funds the others. No impact on the international game, players play less matches. The money must flow down to the grass roots.

The Good, the Bad, the Ugly truth reveals itself…

If rugby union is to survive it needs vast investment or does it fall by wayside with more clubs going bust and English rugby ending up with Australia becoming a second tier nation.

Scrum Half. Always the biggest knob on the team.

Tins ignores NZ in his model and prefers Australia becos of stadium size? Mate, you're never gonna be the CE or key ambasador of any global rugby game if your starting position ignores the Kiwis! And a correction Tins - the global fan base of rugby according to the Neilson survey in 2019 was 405M. Followers were at the 800M level, not fans. Nevertheless, point still holds: we need to create more value to reward players and grow the game. Moreover, still a great show. From a fan in Wellington, NZ! Go the Canes!

Some concerning stuff here. Money from anywhere because “other sports are”, doesn’t seem like a good argument. Russian or Chinese backing too? Maybe, I don’t know. What the hypothetical ‘elite league’ talked about here is the absolute lack of skin in the game the supporters would have. Successful sports that endure are built of tribalism of geography. These plastic teams with no roots would put on great shows I’m sure, but there’s no heart and soul to it. There’s no history there. Skin-deep rugby with no substance. As I’ve suggested on other threads, any investment coming in should be to have central ownership of leagues/clubs (like NFL or similar), with the leagues laddering up to European/international cup competitions. The top teams from Prem, Top 14 and URC go into a straight knockout European cup. SA teams go back to southern hemisphere with South America, Japan, Pacific Islands, Oz and NZ. These two super comps. (NH and SH) happen after these domestic seasons, with the winners playing off in a showcase event to be crowned World Champions.

Catherine almost interrupted Princess Anne!

Gethin is my dream man. He’s soooo hot 😍😍😍😍😍 x

Farmhouse Chique is definitely a keeper

No morality when cash is involved. This is so wrong, human abuses, murder on foreign soil and total dismissal of human rights are to serious to sports wash.

RIP Kate!

Been watching all the sports in the last 5+ years that Saudi has been throwing cash at, bringing in-country with domestic events.... golf, tennis, f1, boxing... in every case there's the controversy of "sportwashing" just behind the curtain, which is immediately a concern and something no sport needs. The debates within each sport tend to create divisions, and in the case of at least golf there's been real disruption to the existing, long-standing competitions. Then you watch the boxing, Fury vs Usyk, over the last several days. You're confronted with the weird spectacle of obsequious praise towards the "Kingdom" and its many high ranking officials, all from the Royal crop. It feels painfully outdated, if not mildly offensive on an egalitarian level. And the question with any investment is, what are you required to give back? You have to ask if rugby has adequately protected itself around recent waves of investment? Has the CVC deal been good for the sport, all things considered? I'd be very, very concerned about what a cash-hungry league would put on the table if the incentives appeared attractive on a short term basis.

So many wonderful laughs, but also some heartfelt moments talking Wales rugby, social media etc. ❤

Think I’m just gonna listen to Kickoff and Kickons than this from now on.

The unavoidable problem is the lack of grassroots support for many clubs. The traditional 100+ year old clubs are not big enough so we make regional clubs that do not represent anyone. Outside of (some) internationals, private schools get the largest crowds in Australia of 10 - 15,000 for certain matches. Tours are dead unless combined super teams (Lions, Barbars), Except maybe tours of the USA colleges with juniors to encourage it in the USA with "get spotted and study in America" tours.

Good on you for taking a look at this subject. Disappointing you couldn't do it justice. Almost everyone else, rightly, has expressed their revulsion at this idea. Especially disappointed in you giving Tindall's friend the softest of rides as he glosses over his employer's murder of journalists, criminalizing of homosexuality, oppression of women, slavery etc. Financially this wouldn't grow rugby, it'd just be a bigger version of the Premiership; rich people increasing player salaries and covering costs of loss-making teams. The assumption is everyone will love this idea. As a fan I don't automatically want something just because it is "new and global". I might. But it isn't guaranteed. Look at the reaction to the soccer Super League. Also look at existing rugby competitions similar to this global roadshow. SVNS - shrinking in terms of stops, teams, attendances and viewers. Super Rugby traversing 4 continents - teams full of great players playing attacking rugby but fans went weeks without home games, teams played at anti-social hours and it was hard to build meaningful rivalries but also connections between fans and their team, ultimately the structure failed. Now consider the formation of new teams (franchises?). Do you really think everyone in Britain will get behind the Western Union Windsor Sovereigns, especially for their next game at 3 AM against the DHL Dubai Duststorms? What happens to Premiership, URC etc teams and competitions when the best players are lured away? Super cool that New Zealand wouldn't have a team though. The All Blacks name means nothing and New Zealand isn't even good at the sport. Finally, to Tindall, does rugby being in a poor place justify throwing morals and standards in the bin solely for a bag of cash? On the bright side, I'm glad Haskell wasn't on this episode to noisily hype up this repugnant idea. Plus, hopefully this topic will have as much chance of happening as that Roc Nation hype merchant you had on 2 years ago. Poor showing, guys, especially following the great episode with Jones and Jenkins.

You never answered the question, twice as many fans but not near the money…that’s the first question. And only question

No more LGBT…no gays, big answer. Guess who they never talked about WOMENS game…wow, you all are just virtual signalers…go get your vacs…

It's a shame you coming on the video then someone contacts you pretending to be them. So sad

The fun bus?

Where is Prince William's wedding ring? Not too classy, and I love he and princess Catherine!

Trickle down economics is a lie, these capitalist corporate vultures just want to make shit loads of cash out of hard pressed folks… why no counter balance to the money men narrative in this episode?

You are both brilliant players but that giggling just annoys me so I can't watch

I understand the concerns with taking an investment from Saudi but at the moment it doesn't seem we have much choice unless another miracle investor comes along, as rugby in its current state is a highly uninviting prospect in terms of commercial viability. Every time a club goes bankrupt 40 people lose their jobs and the fact that the TV rights for the Champions Cup next year are unwanted by UK television platforms should be a frightening wake-up call for anyone doubting the incredibly ominous future of English rugby if there isn't change. I also, initially didn't like the narrative of the video when the clip was shown of a super league being discussed on the media platforms as I didn't like the idea of damaging the club/grassroots game or pulling clubs from their prospective comps - but this structure doesn't remove the club game but ensures that the club/grassroots game doesn't die of bankruptcy. If fans don't like the idea of supporting a franchise they can still support their local club, whether it be Gloucester, Doncaster or Chinnor but can support in good faith knowing that their beloved club will still exist in a years time. For anyone doubting the financial viability of such a model, only has to look at F1 and its commercial success over the past few years, the franchise model should win over the younger generations and the American market, who the game will need (in particular the prior) for it to succeed in the long run. Rugby Union, is reportedly the 4th largest sport in the UK in terms of general fan engagement - only behind football, F1 and athletics; however, amongst Gen Z rugby isn't even in the top 10 (behind the likes of basketball and badmington) - this should again be a wake-up call for those who truly love the game. Bassically, every other sport has taken money from Saudi - most of whom need cash far less than our sport, the ship on morality has sailed and we must now jump. Beggers can't be choosers and at this point in time we may have to choose between a Saudi backed league or no league at all.

Great idea, rugby definitely needs a change and some capital from somewhere. Rugby has for too long chopped off its nose to spite its face, hence the division of the codes nearly a century ago - it may have taken a hundred years, but hopefully the sport has eventually learnt from the error of its ways. Have 16 Franchises: The equivalent number to one of the two NFL conferences London Dublin Paris Barcelona Rome Vancouver LA NYC Buenos Aires Cape Town Auckland Sydney Perth Hong Kong Tokyo (Gulf State Team) One big weekend, in each city as spoken about in the pod - plus an invitational. There should be draft rules in place to keep some local sentiment as well as promoting the international sentiment of the tournament. Therefore, (bar HK and the Gulf state) each team is required to have 5 eligible players from the country the franchise represents - bar the 2 US bases teams, Vancouver and Spain - who require 2; which may be tough on them at the beginning but will pay dividends for the country in the long run. Also, for the 12 sides with the 5 national player rule, each team can only have as many players from another nation as they do for their own nation - i.e: if ‘London Mavericks’ only has 10 of the 25 man squad as English, they can’t have 11 kiwis. To prevent teams, from having a dilemma during the draft, there will be a preliminary draft round where the franchises get ‘first dibs’ of those players who put themselves forward for the draft representing the country where the franchise is based, i.e: ‘CPT Titans’ get a chance to draft Cheslin first. To prevent teams such as the Cape Town and Auckland picking a completely home based team and diminishing the nature of an international draft: as well as a minimum, there will be a maximum of 15 of the 25 man squad allowed to be picked from the same country - (All Blacks in the Auckland squad). Given the abundance of talent in NZ for example, even with 15AB’s at the Auckland franchise, there will still be plenty of talent up for the taking. Following the preliminary round, there will be an open draft where any player who has put themselves forward will be up for the taking, should they have not already been retained, picked in the previous round and the salary cap permit. The prospective unions and feeder leagues get a slice of the revenue generated by their host franchise, and sell on clubs, get a commission of the player pickups (the exact numbers can be crunched by the statisticians).

Rich investors, invest where there is a a good base and businesses opportunity. Rugby isn't a a good businesses opportunity. More people attend league 2 football games then English rugby premier league.

Brush over all the human rights issues!!! "This isnt a shownfor that talk". Tindall should be ashamed of himself.

Great watch again, tell Georgia and rose forget the idiots on dumb social media, they still get to wake up in the morning WELSH. They will understand what I mean . With no disrespect to anyone

Geezer at the end who pops up from bottom left will go far!

Oh dear.... I simply pointed out a few home truths about what their proposing and, naturally, they refused to post my comment. Looks like they really are teaming up with the Saudis...

I really hope not!

You could have the Barbarians be one of the teams and have them be the team based out of the "invitational" country. Gets a brand that rugby fans know all around the world back being relevant and would add a brand new element to the Barbarians history

So Ireland, Scotland, wales and New Zealand wouldn’t have a franchise.. but big up the Jeddah all stars.. what the fk are they thinking. I’m a ‘young fan’ and all for radical change in the game but the suggested format is laughable and would KILL the club game.

No way to Saudi- let them sink their money in helpin refugees!!!! Oh yes no they wont. Not happy for this week podcast

WR is bankrupt rudderless ship. Run like an English rugby club. They have no option. Sportswash WR. Clear all the NH mafia.

Rather flippantly basically saying well if everyone else is doing it? Also this would never work. Tribalism is a cornerstone of rugby. Golfers represent a whole nation or just an individual. No one in Leicester, Gloucester, Bath etc are going to pay to support a London based team let alone anyone in Wales or Scotland. All the teams bar Worcester that went bust moved away from their fan base. The Irish model works because the team's have traditional local support. Paying players millions doesn't fix rugby's problems. A very silly conversation. This is an RFU/England problem in that their proffesionalism system doesn't work. Don't get me started on relegating the importance of international rugby either.

I don't buy that Rugby needs Saudi investment to improve its marketability and profitability. World Rugby has started to play with law changes to "improve" the speed of the game. Every change will have its fans and its detractors, but in my opinion, rugby broadcasters, clubs and unions can get together to and reimagine the game's outreach (without totally ripping up tradition) by trialing some relatively low-cost amendments to the game such as: + amp up scrums and lineouts during broadcast (lineout height, pack weights, tight-head compressive forces, Scrummager of the Match) + have referees announce penalties clearly over a PA similar to how they do in the NFL, + have sponsorship underneath the TMO or something to spruce that dead time up, + put names and unique numbers (or letters even, Bath-style) on the jerseys for greater salability (and use better fonts than the boring, ugly one they use in the Prem), + give the players nicknames and podcasts/RUclips magazine shows to help amplify their profile, + trading cards for kids - both physical, via food (chocolate/gum) sponsors, and digital, + a worldwide club-level fantasy rugby and tipping platform, + a twice-weekly global rugby round-up program (review on Monday, preview on Thursday) on RUclips and RugbyPass TV that showcases comps around the world + a best-practice tailgating procedure created by a panel of the best clubs (Blue Bulls) and shared with all professional clubs, + allow clubs to sell their merch through a global platform (it's such a pain to get Toulouse merch to Australia), + improve RugbyPass TV so that we can selectively pay for competitions live and on demand without a broadcasting deal in the country you're in (eg Top 14, URC and JRLO in Australia) + consider selling ad space to HNW global brands on RugbyPass to subsidise it: UBS, Saxo Bank, Emirates, Heineken, Asahi, Mastercard etc + help the multiple professional comps around the world start accompanying Sevens series in their off-seasons to build tournament revenue and build rugby's profile for fairweather fans + double down on tradition by selling traditional rugby jerseys, blazers, tough old school rugby shorts and sweats that are such a rich part of the game's heritage. It's been profitable for Ralph Lauren and Rowing Blazers, team up with them or Canterbury to create a World Rugby brand (don't call it World Rugby) that helps amplify that heritage + More global Baa Baas games. In partnership with professional clubs and unions, that club should/could have clubhouses around the world in the form of old school rugby pubs where you can get a pint and a good feed surrounded by old rugby photos, jerseys and other memorabilia.

Of course it was the halfback that did it.

NFL works mostly because of the college system providing a neverending stream of players. College players are unpaid!. The average playing career of an NFL player is 3 years.

The pod got a pay off through Tins royal mates

Disgusting. Tyndall married to royal family ok with Saudi total family destroying the game. Mad how they came up with this idea on the fly..

"Human rights" are left wing nonsense. Forget about it. Get the money instead.

"Other sports are corrupt, so rugby should be too." Impressive reasoning.

It's never an easy conversation to have where Saudi is concerned. But if you remove the Saudi aspect, and instead look at is as American investment, all of a sudden this becomes a LOT more attractive. On a sporting and financial level, it would be fantastic. The IPL proves this model can work, if things carry on as they are, rugby is in danger of swallowing itself and returning to semi-professional level given the evident lack of money within the game.

all sport and many other industries slowly going under the control of Saudi Arabia..... were giving the world away slowly.

❤😊

Goodbyevalues then..

The good news ladies, is you get a little bit older again, and you don't give a stuff.

Yet another superb pod, full of great, great content. Massive respect to Donna and Georgia for their honesty about the tough campaign they had on and off the pitch.